Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

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Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Steve Tamerius on Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:12 pm

I'd like a clarification on exactly what can be worn on the feet/ankles/shins for the deadlift. The rules state, "socks, tape or plastic shin guards are REQUIRED on the deadlift." I'm wondering about the use of the word "OR". Does this mean that a lifter can wear plastic shin guards and ballet shoes with no socks? Or, can one deadlift barefooted as long as he is wearing plastic shin guards?

I'd like to know exactly what combinations are permitted and not permitted.

Steve Tamerius

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Eric Stone on Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:05 am

What part of the rulebook did you take that from? Do you have the most up to date version of the rulebook from the WPC website? I checked, under "Costume and Personal Equipment," subsection "6. Special considerations" it says this:

"Plastic or fabric shin guards may be worn but must not extend to a point higher than the lower border of the patella and not lower than the superior border of the ankle joint."

Shoes are REQUIRED on the deadlift no matter what else you have on. Shin guards are legal, they can be worn under the socks, or over the socks, or whatever I don't think socks are required, but you can only wear one pair.

I don't think tape/plaster is allowed anywhere but the thumbs, unless special consideration is given via an injury or something.

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Steve Tamerius on Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:54 am

Eric, thanks for your reply. I was reading subsection 5--Socks. I thought subsection 6 pertained to women since that is how the section begins. I guess I failed to read the last sentence. It probably should have a separate paragraph and say, "Plastic or fabric shin guards may be worn by ALL LIFTERS...". That would drive the point home.

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Mike McDaniel on Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:06 am

Steve Tamerius wrote:I'd like a clarification on exactly what can be worn on the feet/ankles/shins for the deadlift. The rules state, "socks, tape or plastic shin guards are REQUIRED on the deadlift." I'm wondering about the use of the word "OR". Does this mean that a lifter can wear plastic shin guards and ballet shoes with no socks? Or, can one deadlift barefooted as long as he is wearing plastic shin guards?

I'd like to know exactly what combinations are permitted and not permitted.

Per the section in the rulebook under "socks", socks, shin guards, or tape are required on deadlift (all lifters) covering the portion of the shin that is in routine contact with the bar and subject to bleed. The intent is to minimize the possibility of disease transfers from a contaminated bar. The definition for allowable length on shin guards in the rulebook under "special considerations" also applies to the tape. The allowable length for socks is under "socks". In the "special considerations" section there are "women specific" statements, but the statement on shin guards wasn't gender specific. Previously they were allowed for either gender. Now they, or tape or socks are required.

Best to you,
mike mcd
apf12766/wpc441

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Mike McDaniel on Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:09 am

Steve Tamerius wrote:I'd like a clarification on exactly what can be worn on the feet/ankles/shins for the deadlift. The rules state, "socks, tape or plastic shin guards are REQUIRED on the deadlift." I'm wondering about the use of the word "OR". Does this mean that a lifter can wear plastic shin guards and ballet shoes with no socks? Or, can one deadlift barefooted as long as he is wearing plastic shin guards?

I'd like to know exactly what combinations are permitted and not permitted.

Oops, didn't answer all of your question. The new requirement on socks, taqpe, or shin guards doesn't affect the shoe requirement at all. Footwear "more substantial than socks
" must be worn. Cleats/spikes are disallowed. Wearing shin guards with ballet socks would be fine. Deadlifting barefoot with plastic shin guards wouldn't be allowed.

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Eric Stone on Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:48 pm

Mike McDaniel wrote:

Per the section in the rulebook under "socks", socks, shin guards, or tape are required on deadlift (all lifters) covering the portion of the shin that is in routine contact with the bar and subject to bleed. The intent is to minimize the possibility of disease transfers from a contaminated bar. The definition for allowable length on shin guards in the rulebook under "special considerations" also applies to the tape. The allowable length for socks is under "socks". In the "special considerations" section there are "women specific" statements, but the statement on shin guards wasn't gender specific. Previously they were allowed for either gender. Now they, or tape or socks are required.

Best to you,
mike mcd
apf12766/wpc441

Is this a new rule? This is the first I have heard of it. When was it changed? Meet directors, state chairs, and even just APF lifters should be notified somehow how any rule changes. *Requiring* socks or something on the shins on the deadlift is a major change in rules that I certainly could see *most* lifters not knowing about coming into a meet. From a meet director's perspective, that is not a good thing.

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Mike McDaniel on Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:41 am

Eric Stone wrote:
Mike McDaniel wrote:

Per the section in the rulebook under "socks", socks, shin guards, or tape are required on deadlift (all lifters) covering the portion of the shin that is in routine contact with the bar and subject to bleed. The intent is to minimize the possibility of disease transfers from a contaminated bar. The definition for allowable length on shin guards in the rulebook under "special considerations" also applies to the tape. The allowable length for socks is under "socks". In the "special considerations" section there are "women specific" statements, but the statement on shin guards wasn't gender specific. Previously they were allowed for either gender. Now they, or tape or socks are required.

Best to you,
mike mcd
apf12766/wpc441

Is this a new rule? This is the first I have heard of it. When was it changed? Meet directors, state chairs, and even just APF lifters should be notified somehow how any rule changes. *Requiring* socks or something on the shins on the deadlift is a major change in rules that I certainly could see *most* lifters not knowing about coming into a meet. From a meet director's perspective, that is not a good thing.

I noticed the rule change when reviewing the rulebook in prep. to judge the APF Texas Cup meet the first weekend of November. The last updated date (09/09) on the rulebook link was newer than the last time I'd judged so I reviewed the rules in detail. I found this difference, plus the requirement that shirts have to be worn now on squats and deadlifts. I agree a better means of notification is needed. At minimum maybe having a page on the rules section on the website listing date and describing the revision would be helpful. Not everyone is going to take the time you or I do to routinely review the rules, then always review them in detail prior to every meet. Thankfully there aren't changes often. From what I understand there was a rule change at the AGM at World's that will soon be noted......just working out the wording now. As for notifying lifters, one way I thought of is to note any rule changes since the previous year (few and far between) on the entry form.....probably wouldn't take more than one or two sentences.

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Mike McDaniel on Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:55 am

One last, and it's trended off-topic (deadlift) but it's pertinent to the shirt comment I made in the previous post.

The rulebook states that an undershirt must be worn under the lifting suit (doesn't exclude any event), describes the shirt, then has a subsequent statement of of being mandatory on squat. I'm not sure why the second statement specific to squat is made.

Best to all,
mike mcd
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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Mike McDaniel on Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:04 am

Mike McDaniel wrote:One last, and it's trended off-topic (deadlift) but it's pertinent to the shirt comment I made in the previous post.

The rulebook states that an undershirt must be worn under the lifting suit (doesn't exclude any event), describes the shirt, then has a subsequent statement of of being mandatory on squat. I'm not sure why the second statement specific to squat is made.

Best to all,
mike mcd
apf12766/wpc441

Last on the shirts......may be a Mars and Venus thing, I may have taken the wording too literal, or perhaps I'm just dense. I expect the wording on shirts is to say when worn they have to be on the outside of the lifting suit (like the statement for belts), and that they're required on squats.

Later,
mike

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Re: Deadlift--Equipment Allowed?

Post  Steve Tamerius on Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:40 am

Let's face it. The rule book isn't written very well (sorry to whoever wrote it). Someone should go through it and clean it up.

For example, on the undershirt requirement, it says, "One undershirt (of a design consistent with what is commonly called a T-shirt) with or without sleeves, MUST be worn under the lifting suit". The following phrase should have been added, "on the squat, bench press and deadlift. However, a t-shirt is not allowed if one is wearing a bench press shirt."

The rule goes on to say, "Undershirt is MANDATORY on the Squat" . Why was this phrase even necessary if, at the beginning, you say that a T-shirt must be worn under the lifting suit? It almost suggests that a T-shirt ISN'T mandatory on the bench and deadlift.

Under equipment, why doesn't the rulebook have a section for each of the three lifts? Explain what is, and isn't, allowed for the squat, then do it for the bench press, and then again for the deadlift. Spell it out. Leave no questions hanging.

Maybe my little peabrain is missing something here, but instead of all the legalese and gobbledygook, why not rewrite the rules so that any lifter (or referee) participating in APF events can understand them without any ambiguity? The fact that we have three APF refs discussing this in this thread has to tell you something is not right. And if the refs are discussing this, what is the average lifter to think?

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