No "Depth Tap" by Judges

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No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Mike McDaniel on Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:20 pm

To all APF judges, if you've been giving lifters/coaches a tap for depth on squat please discontinue. If you've not yet done so please don't.

As an alternative offer to work with lifters/coaches in the warm-up room for alignment on your and their perspectives of depth by calling their warm-ups if requested.

Thanks,
mike mcdaniel
apf 12766/wpc441

Mike McDaniel

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Re: No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Eric Stone on Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:52 pm

Mike--While I don't disagree with this decision, can you reference the part of the rulebook you used to make it? I have looked myself, and it seems fairly ambigous on the subject to me.

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Re: No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Mike McDaniel on Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:09 pm

There's nothing specific in the rulebook disallowing it. The same comment of nothing in writing applies to a lot of other behaviors that aren't in the overall best interest of the sport, and aren't part of an official's responsibility. My first questioning "depth taps" was at Seniors in Baton Rouge (2002 I think). Ernie and Maris were there. They stopped the official that was giving "depth taps". It was a point of interest at this year's Seniors (requested of but declined by me and Beverly), and a point of frustration (unsolicited feedback) pertinent to inconsistent administration for a number of lifters I talked with per their experience at another recent APF meet. I followed up with Amy for historical info. on the subject. Her feedback/perspective was the same as that of Enrie/Maris.

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mike

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Re: No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Steve Tamerius on Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:01 pm

Gee, I can't imagine ANY refereee doing this! It's something I would never have thought of doing in a competition.

If you look at the rulebook, there are two items that, to me, would suggest that a referee shouldn't be doing this.

The first is on page 9, rule 4: "The lifter must recover AT WILL". "At will" means "when one wishes" according to my dictionary. If a referee is tapping a lifter for depth then it's not really the lifter's will, or decision, when to rise from the bottom of a squat. That decision was made by the referee tapping him.

On page 23, rule 13, it says, "A referee shall not attempt to influence the decision of other referees". Wouldn't tapping a lifter when he made depth influence the other two referees to give white lights? If I'm a side judge and the other side judge taps the lifter for depth, I'd be second guessing myself if I thought it might be a little high. Did I see it correctly? Was the other side referee in a better position than me? Personally, I would give the lift a red or white depending on what I personally saw...which is how it should be. But if tapping was permitted I could see how some referees might react. It's just human nature.

However, this is all academic since it isn't, and will not be, allowed.

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Re: No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Eric Stone on Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:05 pm

Steve, I think what Mike was discussing was a referee tapping a coach/handler/teammate, who would then yell to the lifter to go "Up!" I've seen it a couple times.

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Re: No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Steve Tamerius on Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:29 am

Eric, I see what you mean. I understood Mike's original post where he said "lifters/coaches" as meaning lifters OR coaches, not "lifters' coaches". It DID seem a little odd.

However, in any respect, I think my two points would still be valid. The idea of a "depth tap" just SOUNDS wrong and something I wouldn't even consider doing in my refereeing.

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Re: No "Depth Tap" by Judges

Post  Buddy McKee on Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:20 pm

I'd agree. As much as you want to be lifter friendly it is too far into the gray area of the rules as stated above with 'recover at will'. And too much distraction from the judges concentration during the lift. And if, in the focus of judging a close lift; you forget the 'tap' you'll be accused of cheating the lifter by he and or his coach. I understand and appreciate why a judge would want to do this to help the lifter be successful, but I just see too many potential problems. I think it's enough to allow a coach or another experienced lifter to give an 'up' call when they see that depth is reached.

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